Cofty, you have been unique in my view in that you went to Christianity before becoming an atheist. That's very interesting to me. Sort of unique as far as I've seen.
Christ Alone
JoinedPosts by Christ Alone
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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When you were a jw-new light & the doors?
by carla inwhen you were a jw and lets say a topic at the door came up and you went into great detail explaining something only to have 'new light' come out shortly aftwards, did you feel any obligation to go back to the door and explain that you have a 'new understanding' or were in error?.
today we know that there will be new light re: the fds being only the gb and not the anointed.
new light from above!
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Christ Alone
Honestly, when I was a JW I was always SO EXCITED when "New Light" came out. It wasn't a time to feel guilty or confused. I accepted it 100% everytime. "How awesome that Jehovah is helping us to understand his word better!" was my response.
Of course, I was young. I didn't live through the 75 fiasco. I didn't have to change views, change them back to the orginal, then change them back again. That may have changed my feelings a bit.
But I also did not feel obligated to go back to doors and clarify anything. The new light that I lived through was the change to accept donations and not charge for literature, the change that the judging of the sheep and the goats was future not present, the change of the generations, and some smaller minor changes. They weren't really issues that came up at the door.
This newest change isn't really something that will come up at the door either. As has been brought out, the WT doesn't even talk about the Faithful Slave on their website. And I don't remember talking about it at the door either. The Faithful Slave was invisible to the householder (don't you love that term ). It was an INNER doctrine that was only learned about after you had been studying with a person for a while. If I recall, there is no discussion about the faithful slave in the Require brochure, and it doesn't come up in the Bible Teach book until close to the end of the book.
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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Christ Alone
CA - Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller have done a lot to demonstrate that somebody can be a believer and a good scientist. Unfortunately most believers who claim to hold that position are not good at respecting the boundaries.
Again, I have fallen into that category of not respecting boundaries SO many times. It's been a huge learning curve for me. Being raised as a JW, I was taught that anyone that did not believe as I believed was wrong, and led by Satan. Learning to respect boundaries, and not only accept differences but actually to celebrate them has been somewhat of an epiphany to me.
Not to take this thread of topic, but I have a quick question. A few days or a week ago I brought up the name Antony Flew. You said that he was a weak example. I guess the idea is that he lost his mind later in life and let the Christians take over. Is this how you feel? I must admit that when I read his book "There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind", I did not get the impression of a man that was senile or suffering from some form of dementia. I've read some of the accusations, but I also read from Flew himself that the accusations were not true. Was this what you meant when you said that Flew is a weak example?
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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Christ Alone
There are some "angry at god" former JWs who are not atheists but it is just as big a mistake to see all atheists the same as it is to lump all believers together.
I totally agree, Cofty. I guess my question is why does it seem to be larger here than in other religious organizations? But I do see your point in that when it's been such a struggle and questioning process to get out of the organization, this would also cause you to question belief too.
I was talking to a pastor the other day about JWs. It was interesting because he was telling me that he stopped answering the door when JWs called because the conversation never went anywhere. He would bring out his bible and they bible wouldn't match theirs, so he just gave up. Anyway, we started talking about JWs that leave and he was saying that he's met very few that leave and actually learn what the Bible actually says about Jesus. I told him that close to 90% of the JWs that I've met that have left have stopped all belief in God. He was shocked. We had a long conversation about it. He asked "Why?" and I could give some answers (close to yours, cofty) but nothing conclusive.
I think cofty's answer is important. I too examined my belief in God closely after leaving, but I came to a far differenct conclusion that many other exJWs. I questioned everything from the Bible to evolution to belief in God in general. For myself, I found that I didn't even know who God was. I only had the JW perspective of God, and whether you believe the Bible or not, it does not fit the Bible's concept of God. At least that is the conclusion I came to.
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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Christ Alone
most believers actually don't understand the differences and float between all of the above beliefs in reponse to evidence.
That's the thing I struggle with everyday with some of my believer friends. Some believers drive me nuts because of this. It really hurts those of us that do believe in God AND love science, know why we do believe what we believe, and do enjoy talking with others about this.
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Survey: Who here is an atheist? Who here still believes in God?
by Christ Alone ini just wanted to take a survey.
let's not let this get into the same old same old debate of atheism vs belief.
just respond with "atheist" or "believer" or "maybe god exists".
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Christ Alone
I just wanted to take a survey. Let's not let this get into the same old same old debate of atheism vs belief. Just respond with "Atheist" or "Believer" or "Maybe God Exists".
I'll start: Believer.
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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Christ Alone
That wouldn't be a popular opinion on this site, HW. I've pondered why so many exJWs become atheists, while so many ex members of other religions don't. People here would say that it is based ONLY upon research of facts and logic that they came to this conclusion. Personally I doubt that about many. No one is going to admit that they stopped believing in God because of the acts of an organization. They are going to always say that it is because of their research into science. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, however. I just see a larger ratio of JWs and Mormons becoming atheists compared to other ex members. Not sure if any study has been done on this.
It'd be interesting to start a thread JUST to see WHO is atheist and who still believes in God, or the possibility of God. Although I could see it getting hijacked quickly. Maybe I'll try it out...
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templelijah
by turtleturtle inis templelijah serious when he posted this to his blog?.
http://templelijah.wordpress.com/gb-8k-infiltration/gb-stephen-lett-flashes-666-hand-sign/.
what is your take on this elijah?
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Christ Alone
I wonder, do you consider me one of the crazies?
Nah! And that wasn't very nice of me to say. I've tried to read through some of temple's posts but all of a sudden my eyes glaze over. I've read a bit about how the WT and the GB fit in to biblical prophecy and my mind shuts off. Largely, it doesn't seem like solid exegesis.
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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Christ Alone
Very true, EE. I myself have fallen for the "all atheists are the same" idea too. Fortunately many of the helpful atheists here have jumped in to tell me how wrong I was.
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67
Theists lumped into the same category
by Christ Alone insome members have been using the term creationism to refer to everyone that is not an atheist, and believes in god.
i just wanted to bring out the fact that there are a wide variety of beliefs.
not all that believe in god reject evolution, propose a young earth, and reject scientific methods.. some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic.
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Christ Alone
CA, have you read in search of christian freedom by franz?
I certainly have. It's a masterpiece that will always be in my library.